International Action Center
PALESTINE JOURNAL TRANSCRIPTS OF RADIO INTERVIEWS
Wednesday, November 1, 2000
The report of the fifth day from a four-person delegation from
the International Action Center from their
humanitarian and fact-finding mission to Palestine during what is being called the Al Aqsa
Intifada, or uprising has been held up because the delegation is in transit. We substitute
for it the transcripts of three radio interviews given on Oct. 30 and Oct. 31, 2000, which
are now available.
The delegation aims to bring back a first-hand report documenting
the repression inflicted by the Israeli army and to bring medical supplies for Palestinian
hospitals, which have been declared a state of medical emergency. The Emergency is caused
by the dual problem of the heavy casualties inflicted by the Israeli repression and the
inability of sick and wounded people to pass through Israeli checkpoints on their way to
the hospital. The IAC delegation members include IAC co-director Sara Flounders,
Richard Becker, West Coast Regional Coordinator of the IAC, Preston Wood, Los
Angeles Coordinator of the IAC, and Randa Jamal of New York.
INTERVIEW OF RICHARD BECKER ON KPFA OCT. 30, 2000
Richard Becker: This is Richard Becker of the International Action
Center and I am here in Ramallah, in the West Bank with a delegation from the IAC that
arrived here on Saturday, October 28. About two hours ago, which is about ten o’clock,
10:30 p.m. local time we saw an attack, a rocket attack from what we believe an Apache
helicopter some distance from the house that we’re staying in.
We had heard that there is military action taking place. We saw a
helicopter and then a plane that was flying over. We saw a flare and then a large
explosion took place possibly within a mile, mile and a half. We went immediately to the
site and it turned out that a very small building from the Fatah organization had been
rocketed in a residential neighborhood in El Bireh, which together with Ramallah make up
twin cities.
When we arrived on the scene there were many people on the streets.
First we studied the building that had been hit. It was a very tiny office. There’s
no other commercial or offices in this neighborhood. All the rest of the neighborhood was
residential.
The rocket hit the Fatah office, which is something like I would say
four meters by two meters. Iit was really a tiny office. Then we went immediately across
the street to see the widespread damage that was done to the residential apartments. We
went inside to talk with the people inside the apartments all had the glass blown off out
in the front of buildings. There were pieces of the rocket inside the apartment, on the
floor, and other damage. By very great fortune none of the people were injured.
We interviewed a 7-year-old boy who was very scared and a 13-year-old
and a 16-year-old girl who were very terrified. The thing that was very fortunate was that
their mother, who was a U.S. citizen who lives most of the time in Birmingham, Alabama,
had heard the planes and the helicopters outside the house had brought the children into
the center of the house, the safest place in the house in the hallway. Then she had them
on a mattress here and then the rocket hit across the street and destroyed the office,
blew up the whole front of the square unit apartment building.
There was mass debris everywhere, including pieces of the missile
inside. There was another house where according to the neighbors the people had just left
five minutes before, and this house suffered structural damage. Large pieces of stone from
the house were lying in front of it, the windows were all blown out.
We were not able to go into the house next door that was rocketed.
Inside the apartment building there were pieces of missile that burned the rug. It was
also very fortunate that the apartment building wasn’t destroyed by fire. This is
really an extreme example of the kind of brutality against the Palestinian people, against
the civilians here being employed by the Israeli forces.
We’ve been receiving reports that there have been rocket attacks
from helicopters in at least four places. In Nablus, Ramallah, Razia-Gaza, attacks with
automatic weapons in Jerico and we suspect in other places as well in the occupied areas.
We are now about to go out and join people here in Ramallah and this is happening also in
other cities for night time marches. It’s now close to one a.m. and the march is
about to start.
Dennis Bernstein: Alright Richard Becker, we do understand that
things are getting more intense. The Israeli military did in fact announce that they would
be in essence taking off their gloves and going in a very proactive way after various
protesters and the organizers. Please keep us posted in terms of what happens from here on
in.
Richard Becker: O.K. but one of the sentiments of the people is that
this is coming from the United States. There was one man who had lived for many years in
an apartment upstairs and he picked up a piece of a wall that was blow into his apartment,
through his window from the house that was blown up across the street. He held it up and
he said, “I want to send a message to President Clinton, I want to send this back to
him.”
Dennis Bernstein: And that’s the piece of the wall he was
holding
RB: That was the piece of the wall. By then the Palestinian media had
arrived and was on the scene and filmed this. Everywhere the feeling is very, very strong
among the people who understand that the attacks that are being carried out against them.
And I have to call this attack a war crime, this is one attack with no consideration and
no warning on civilian residential neighborhoods. The people are very aware of the
ammunition, the weaponry that’s being used, the helicopters is supplied to the
Israeli military from the United States.
INTERVIEW OF SARA FLOUNDERS BY WBAI, OCT. 31, 2000
Sara Flounders: The Israeli settlements on the West Bank here are
huge armed forts that dominate the hilltops around Jerusalem, around Bethlehem, around
Ramallah,
The roads connecting these settlements go for miles like elevated
highways- fully lit. Only Israeli cars with Israeli license plates are allowed on these
roads and they look down on all these villages. The settlers just shoot with tank rounds
and high- powered weapons snipers down on villages, just shooting, picking off people.
Well Jose, starting last
night there have been a series of Israeli military
rocketing of cities, of residential areas
using Apache helicopters, really firing on neighborhoods- on civilians. The Palestinians
have of course, no anti- aircraft batteries, they have no missile defense system, they
have no protection whatsoever. You’re talking about a population that is totally
vulnerable. Where the most that the pal army or police would have are side arms, in the
face of a heavily armed force with tanks with helicopter gunships, with planes flying
overhead.
And, all of this is meant to create an atmosphere of fear of
intimidation, of a demand for a surrender. And it’s having the opposite effect; it
has galvanized in a way that I have never seen or experienced before, the entire
population in a very very militant and determined mood. This is a whole population that
went through the seven years of peace talks and saw during that time, the Israeli military
defense grow far, far stronger.
The settlements literally doubled, this whole series of byways or
bypass roads was established, the military presence. And the areas of Palestinian control
are so limited, so narrow, literally within city limits and within those limits the entire
population is locked down. You can’t go to the next town; you can’t go to the
next village. There are check-points everywhere, and of course, you can’t leave the
country, you can’t travel abroad. (that was an incoming rocket, I don’t know if
you could hear it-it was quite loud.
Jose Santiago:You could just barely hear it, yes.
Sara Flounders: Now, we were at a very important, there was a
demonstration last night after the attack in Ramallah, where we are we got as far as
Nablus today-there were four rocket attacks here last night and we visited an office
building next to a home that had been hit. There was a demonstration last night that we
attended in Ramallah right after this rocketing and that was quite a moving event,
marching to the site where the rocket hit, just from people all over the city.
Today there was a march of hundreds, of many hundreds that was
called. It was really the youth sort of converging on the north entrance (that’s
firing again) the north entrance into Ramallah. And you can really see here’s the
city limits, it’s actually within the city limits, right across the street is this
line of Israeli tanks. And the youth built barricades with burning tires, and began to
throw stones. And we could share for a very little while the experience that the youth
here in Palestine are going through every day for the past month.
The Israeli forces responded first by firing some pretty heavy –it’s
not tear gas, it’s heavier than that – it’s CS gas we have some of the
canisters, the casings, it says on it “made in USA Federal Labs” which is
located in Pennsylvania. After that they began firing live ammunition. It was really
ricocheting along the walls, and above our heads, and everyone was forced to retreat. But
then they began with firing tank rounds; the big guns on tanks – it’s like a big
machine gun I guess. And that really did force, you could say a temporary retreat.
Now, the same morning we had had a meeting with doctors and medical people from the Union of Healthwork Committee and
the Union of Palestinian Medical Releif Committees. These are really teams of doctors that
operate clinics all over both the West Bank and Gaza. We had gone to the hospitals and
visited a number of people who had been wounded. We went to like a rehab center also,
where a number of people- all young people were. There are at this point 6,600 people who
are seriously wounded – enough that they went to the hospital. About twenty percent
to twenty five percent of them will have lasting disabilities we’re told. That’s
an estimate.
But what these doctors were explaining is the effort they have put
into training volunteer medics and first aid teams, and that is why, although the number
of wounded is extremely high, they have been able to save many people. Because these
teams, and they’re really heroic, along with the youth who are out there on the front
line, these first aid or medic teams, who’ve gone through a real training program,
are there with some basic equipment, stretchers, the ambulances are right in the
confrontation zones, and they race in there as soon as anyone is injured, they’re on
them in minutes.
Compared to the Intifada, seven years ago, eight years ago, they have
been able to save many, many people. Its extremely dangerous for the health workers, and
there’ve been a number of health workers, first aid medics and ambulance drivers who
have been pretty seriously injured themselves.
Jose Santiago: What is clear here is that most newspaper accounts
that us citizens are reading all over the country always portray the Israeli military
attacks as responses to attacks, or firing against the strongholds of extremists. Is that
your sense of what is happening?
Sara Flounders: No. Its absolutely not. These are heavily armed
troops and they have an incredible array of equipment against youth who don’t have
– I mean, the news reporters have flak jackets and helmets and are stationed well
back. The youth have nothing, and none of them are armed with anything except sling shots.
And there’s really no need for the Israeli military to respond.
The Palestinians are literally within their own area, even by what
was reached by the Oslo Accords and the so-called peace talks. It is an attempt to
demoralize, to wear down, to terrorize, to demand a surrender, to demand signing of an
accord that is so unequal that the entire population is refusing to do that. That’s
what these demonstrations represent, right up to the tanks, it is saying “no we’re
not going to back down.”
Today where this fight was going on there where Israeli snipers, and
you could see gun emplacements – I mean you could see it. At the City Inn Hotel right
across the street the sniping down at the crowd. Now that’s an attempt to terrorize.
There’s no other name, there’s no other word for it, and there’s no reason
for it except that it’s a political statement. It has nothing to do with defending
their position, its attempting to push back and its part of making a demand, just like a
precision bombing of Fatah headquarters is a demand for Arafat to sign a peace accord
which he knows the whole population would be against.
INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD BECKER BY KPFA, OCT. 31, 2000
Richard Becker: I'm calling in from Nablus in the West Bank. We just
arrived in this city a few hours ago.
Around noon local time today there was a demonstration which took
place at the north entrance to Ramallah and this came just 12 hours after the rocket
attacks in residential neighborhoods in several cities. The hardest hit city was Nablus,
where there were four different areas that were rocketed. We witnessed last night a
rocketing in Ramallah, and there was another one that we didn’t see with widespread
damage to residential areas, so there's tremendous anger.
There were marches that took place all over Palestine, including one
that we participated in in Ramallah last night at midnight. Today there was a march that
took place and as the march approached the north entrance to Ramallah, which is very close
in, really in the city itself, there was a demo that took place where Palestinian youth
were confronting the Israeli soldiers. And the Israeli soldiers were pulled up right,
almost into the city and it shows how very limited the area under Palestinian control is.
The Palestinian youth began throwing stones and using slingshots
against the soldiers who were confronting them. There were soldiers right behind them that
were hard to see but we could make them out, in both the City Inn hotel and in an
adjoining office building. These were snipers. These snipers have been firing from long
distances at people who are demonstrating, picking them off. So we could see them.
But after the demonstration went on for a little while and we were no
more than a hundred yards from this, the Israelis began opening up and they began firing
automatic weapons after they had used the tear gas. Then they began firing from tanks at
the youth, firing 500 mm and 800 mm bullets, big bullets that just destroy somebody if
they hit them.
But the courage of the youth in confronting this was really
incredible to see. There were hundreds and hundreds of youth along the sides and some who
got up very close to where the soldiers were. Even with all the firing going on they would
continue to resist, they would continue to throw stones. Really, I think, they were making
the statement that they're not going to be intimidated, that they're not going to be
defeated by the use of these tactics, which really have to be considered to be criminal
tactics.
The bombing and rocketing from Apache helicopters -- a terrible
misnomer, but that’s what the helicopters that they have from the United States are
named -- that they are determined to continue this struggle. And then when they began
opening up with the tank weapons against people, the crowds began to scatter, to move back
and to move forward again. Bullets were whistling over our heads, hitting off of buildings
near where we were. And finally the crowd was driven back.
But this was I think one of many many instances like this, and it
shows the tremendous level of morale and the tremendous determination by the youth and by
the people as a whole. And it really is the people as a whole, as we can testify to from
the many encounters that we've had with people from all walks of life here.
One thing that was very noteworthy is that in the morning, before
this took place, we had visited with two different Palestinian medical committees, the
Union of Health Work Committee and the Union of Palestinian Medical relief Association. We
had met with them and we had gone to hospitals and visited some of the wounded. In two
different hospitals, in Ramallah hospital and in another rehabilitation hospital where
more seriously injured people are being treated.
One of the things explained to us in the meeting that we had with the
doctors was that the medical committees here, and this is a new development, have been
training hundreds of medics, volunteer medics, and they go out to places where the
demonstrations are happening, with the ambulances. They've been trained how to get people
who have been shot, how to carry them out in ways that they're safer, into the ambulances.
But of course it's not safe for the people who are doing this at all,
because many of them have been wounded. At least 15 have been seriously wounded with
gunshot wounds to the chest, to the back and the head. But after having heard this
explained early in the morning in the meetings, we then got to witness it first hand where
the ambulances were racing in the areas where the fighting was taking place amid the tank
fire and automatic weapons and bring out wounded Palestinians.
So it's very very dramatic to see this. It was a scene where bullets
were flying, ricocheting around, tear gas. We were exposed to the tear gas, not as much as
the people who were right up in the front, but large amounts of tear gas. We got one of
the tear gas canisters, CS gas canisters that had been fired, and verified by looking at
it, we have it our possession that it was made by Federal Labs, a U.S. company. Twelve
years ago I participated in a sit-in demonstration at Federal Labs out in Western
Pennsylvania, because the Israelis were using the gas in such quantities in the first
Intifada, firing it into people's homes, that many people were dying from it.
But Federal Labs is still producing it and they're still supplying it
to the Israeli military, along with all the other weaponry that's coming from the United
States.
We had to leave Ramallah immediately after the demonstration to come
here to Nablus and part of the reason for that is that the closures are so tight. We were
stopped at checkpoints in two locations and finally, through a very winding and dangerous
dirt road, we were finally able to make it here to Nablus. But that's the way it is here
and so it requires people to spend a great deal of time just trying to get anywhere so we
have not been able to get any further reports on the number of people injured today. We're
hoping to be able to have access to that information later on.
We were told by many people on the scene and many people who were retreating from it that this was without any doubt
tank fire that was coming. It was coming from the large machine guns resting on tanks that
fire 500 mm and 800 mm shells. And when we got hear to Nablus we were shown areas along
the checkpoints where people had been killed, half their heads blown away. One person who
was a bystander and another person who was participating in a demonstration, by these
large bullets, shells almost that are fired by tanks, one had taken half a person's head
off, another had just blown his head apart. And this is increasingly being used. Along
with it of course, the rocketing.
We visited as soon as we got to Nablus the Fatah office here, which
had been hit by two missiles last night and it was totally destroyed. It was a large
building, unlike the building we saw last night in Ramallah which was a very tiny office
of Fatah, where much greater damage was done to surrounding residential buildings. The
Israelis are using US-produced heavy weaponry against civilians and the civilians are
continuing to carry on the struggle and continuing to resist despite this, but it's truly
criminal, what's going on. It's truly a violation of international law to use this type of
weaponry. And I think in the big media what we're hearing, it continues to be misreported
to make it appear that it's some kind of even struggle that's going on here and it's
nothing of the kind.
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